I'm not really sure who the audience of LWG is all the time, but for the purposes of this post, we can assume there are two groups: those who read the same blogs I do (mostly blogrolled below) and have therefore encountered this conversation before. And those who haven't.
For those who have been following the debate, think of this as an impromptu Carnival because I'm going to collect all your posts, write lead-ins for them and put them here in one place (or I'm going to try anyway). It's sorta like conversation mapping. I actually used to do this a lot in my (younger) college days. Some good friends and I would stay up late into the wee hours of the morning and practice the art of good conversation. Then I'd be so impressed with how things evolved I'd want to map it out. So this is a map to a pretty interesting conversation.
For those who haven't been following along, this is an introduction to the conversation thus far and an invitation to participate. It's all about the big P (power) --who has it, who doesn't, why and what to do about it. Mix yourself a drink and join us. I'll give you some of the background, just a caveat: recognize that this conversation has been going on for awhile and at first I wasn't following it too closely but now I am.
I think it started at Feministe (which I haven't been reading as much since Lauren left so I missed this early part of the thread). And I think it started as a discussion about comment policy. The question then was whether feminist blogs should allow anti-feminists to post comments, most of which are offensive at varying levels. Hugo, of course, is famous for allowing these people to do that--they call themselves MRAs -Men's Rights Advocates-- and pretty much they're what I call members of the Flat Earth society (my term for people who are so far out there you can't really have a rational discussion with them. They think men are oppressed by Big Bad Feminists Who Rule The World). There are several who comment over at Hugo's and he lets them and he challenges them and tries to reason with them and all that. The criticism of him allowing these folks to comment is that it creates a hostile space for feminists and feminist issues Here are the posts wherein he responds:
Organizing the soup cans: reflections on blogging (includes links to previous parts of the discussion)
Sorta says that he's trying to be inclusive. And his follow up on blogging rules which says he's not banning anyone and everyone just please be civil. Some feminists point out that he is still privileged over others generally and moreover, as a white man writing about feminism he's even privileged within feminist circles. So he writes further reflections on the role of male allies of feminists in which he recognizes that privilege and tries to do with it what he can to challenge the hegemonic structures of society.
[insert my take on this: Regarding the comment policy, personally, I don't usually read what the crazy people write, and have felt somewhere between a feeling of mild annoyance at them for making the comment thread so long as to be unwieldy and a good riddance feeling that Hugo for one tries to do something I personally am not very good at: engage crazy people. (Although GIL reminds me that someone once said that sane people can't make mad people sane but mad people can make sane people mad.) And there are blogs that do that. They say things like "this comment thread is for feminist-friendly commentators only". (Alas, does that). And that's great. But Hugo feels called to reach out to those guys. There's space enough in the blogosphere for both of these approaches, but I'm going to talk a little more about Hugo's approach.
If you know Hugo, you know this is totally within his character. Tolerance and love of everybody are part of his philosophy of nonviolence. One that, honestly, I wish I could be better at myself so I totally respect him for that. All of us have people that we find particularly difficult to love and that those aren't the same people for everyone. Folks on the left, for example, find it particularly difficult to love Our Dear Leader. Or the white racist cop in Crash, for example. And some of us struggle to love these people and want to hate them but we feel that we must try for the agape love. [btw, I suspect that's what the makers of Crash intended to challenge us on. They know that unless you're a Nazi, the racist cop character's going to be easy to hate. And if you're into trying to see the humanity of everyone, he's going to be a difficult one for you. That's why I think they went out of their way to 'humanize' him. I don't think they were trying to justify his actions or say 'he's not all that bad' in a way that dismisses what he did. I think they were trying (more or less successfully is up for debate) to get at the idea that people can do the most heinous things and we don't have to lessen our judgment of that heinous act as horrible in order to at the same time recognize their humanity. It's something that I struggled with a lot working in a job where I communicated regularly with people on death row, some of whom did horrible things but were also very lonely, tormented, and depressed.) Anyway, I don't think these two things -struggling for agape love and resisting systemic oppression-- are mutually exclusive. We can try to love white racist cops and MRA's while at the same time fighting racism and sexism in our societies.]
Ok, back to the discussion. So Hugo calls for civility in the comments section. Maybe some other people do too. But some people warn that courtesy can be used as an excuse to deflect the uncomfortableness of calling people on their "-isms". In this vein, Kevin at Slant Truth says fuck your civility for women/feminists/people of color: "WE GOTTA RIGHT TO BE HOSTILE…OUR PEOPLE OUR BEING PERSECUTED!" (Right on! Count on the poets among us to add some passion to the debate) and he btw, doesn't mention Hugo, he seems to be referring a something on Feministe. But darkdaughta at One Tenacious Babymama writes this really cool post about power weilding patriarchal male feminists. Which is basically a lament that the proliferation of white men writing super-popular feminist blogs is an example of how even when it comes to things like racism and sexism, we still privilege white men over everyone else. Good point.
So now it's about PRIVILEGE IN THE BLOGOSPHERE and who gets listened to and how Surprise! the Internet reflects the power/privilege structures of the larger society. (Sounds like a good dissertation topic to me!) How exciting! And as Shannon of Egotistical Whining says, the whole thing's become something like "As the Feminists Turn". Shannon's post is where I learned that a white male contributer at Feministe, apologized for not recognizing his white privilege enough (no link because Feministe is down right now) and brownfemipower at Women of Color says that's not enough, it has to be followed up by action and hey, here are some white bloggers who do challenge racism.
Then Bitch | Lab chimes in with another twist on the debate: the fantasy of being outside ideology about how challenging people's personal -isms can sometimes distract us from challenging it on a structural level (at least I think that's what she's saying, she has a peculiar, very academic writing style that sometimes goes over my head) and she, being a loud mouth herself, as well as THE NEXT HOST OF Carnival of the Feminists (after this one about to be published) is calling for posts on "civility", courtesy and the political implications of both
And what about the interpersonal relationship dynamics of all this? whoa. Belledam says:
when people wrap large sociopolitical megillas [what the?] around personal
grievances, or (more often) conflate the one with the other, it tends
to make everything spiral up and up and out and out, with nary a
resolution in sight. Big heady "isms" and abstract structures clouding
the sharp, immediate feelings, till no one can separate thought from
feeling at all anymore, or indeed identify any feelings at all,
although it's clear from the outside that the predominant ones are
rage, shame, and hurt.
And the thing is, when this happens: it's not
that the sociopolitical business is inaccurate, which is the usual line
of the defense from the supposedly "politically incorrect" (tired!)
It's that the personal shit, it matters, too; it doesn't need
justification, if only you can address it for what it is. The personal
is political, yes, but only to a point, and not always in the way
people think.
At any rate, I've often thought, after yet another long agonizing
process-y leftie coalition meeting which covered everything and went
nowhere, it would probably save a lot of time and miscommunication if
more people could say, simply and directly, "I'm feeling hurt" or "I'm
angry." Of course, this is also the group therapy talking.
And that's what activism/consciousness raising is. Like Dorothy Day said, this is a "filthy, rotten system" and we're all hurt by it in different ways. It's just harder for those of us with privilege to accept that we are not exempt from the pain. Ally-work is painful at times, but so is racism. Women and people of color have to deal the pain of sexism and racism all the time. Those of us with privilege are just not as used to it, but that's ok, we'll adjust. The human soul is infinitely adaptable and it's all necessary in the ongoing struggle to heal the fucked up broken human relationships that result from all this oppressive, hierarchical dominating social structure we (white people) have created. So you take the hurt and the anger and the pain and you recognize that it's all wrapped up in the package of human liberation. (Goodness, North Americans in general could learn a lot if we just figured out that we are not exempt from suffering in the world generally.)
whew. so. that's the discussion. or at least the part of it I've seen. in a nutshell. with barb parts inserted. lots of good stuff to chew on. hope y'all had fun and discovered some new blogs and heard a point of view you don't normally hear. ciao, y'all!
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